[MastahRiz]

I don't know anything about KE or its electives policy.

Shifa allows electives year round to students from many other countries. We had two medical students here just a few weeks ago, both from the UK, doing electives in peds, ENT, and ortho.

The number of patients you'll see depends more on which field you want to do your elective in rather than which hospital. ENT has an unlimited supply, whereas Optho has very few. Shifa allows you to do quite a bit of outpatient work, but you'll have to really prove your worth if you want to be allowed to assist in a surgery- meaning you'll need to imrpess them with your knowledge of basic sciences (anatomy/phys).

Both Islamabad and Lahore have an excellent public transportation system- isb has taxis and lahore has rickshaws, but there's definitely better shopping in lahore. Islamabad on the other hand, is much cleaner and has nicer weather, year round. Also, the power goes out regularly on a daily basis, but less so in Islamabad as compared to other parts of Pakistan.

One student who did his elective here at Shifa had the following complaints:

1. He wasn't informed that he'd have to supply his own bedding in the school hostel (except for the mattress itself). He had to go out to a market here and buy it.

2. He wasn't informed that he'd be expected to wear a white dr's labcoat at all times that he was on campus. He borrowed this from me.

3. The student affairs office was slow in making him an ID badge, which is something the ENT department would ask him about everyday. He had to pester the student affairs office daily for about a week and a half before they finally had it.

Minor annoyances in the grand scheme of things. Overall, definitely worth it.

 

[MastahRiz]

Based on everything you've mentioned so far, it sounds like Shifa is the place you'd like best. You don't need to worry so much about where you do an elective if you're doing it in Pakistan because to people abroad it'll make no difference. Yes KE is recognized in many places outside of Pakistan, while Shifa is relatively new, but a Pakistani hospital is still a Pakistani a hospital in their eyes.

In terms of experience, for someone who's a regular pakistani medical student going to Shifa or KE, it would matter a great deal where they did their elective, based on all the reasons you've mentioned. However for you, coming from the UK, it's really about a difference of less than 10 percent overall- coming out here is going to give you the big picture as well as the experience no matter where you do it.
I'm a Shifa student, and if I went to KE, yes I'd notice a big difference, and vice versa. For you to go from a UK hospital which is the norm, and go to any Pakistani hospital for an elective, it's a big enough change for you to get a maximum amount of benefit regardless of where you do it.

Shifa and KE are both great places for an elective. If it were me, I think at this point I'd be basing my decision solely on where I'd get along better with the people and where I'd be more comfortable in terms of the living situation.

Shifa's faculty is great- most have done at least some training abroad, if not a whole lot. Most of them will thoroughly enjoy the chance having an elective student. The students are extremly foreign friendly as long as you don't turn your nose up to them.

The facilities are quite modern, as Shifa has a ton of foreign investors. The hospital as well as Islamabad overall, are both much cleaner than other places. You will have to share a room and you'll be within about 3 minutes walking distance.

Smeer, thanks for a great post.

To some of our other posters, I of course admire your enthusiasm but should mention that you should save these opinions for once you've actually started medical school...

 

[MastahRiz]

good post, thanks for the info man.

 

[MastahRiz]

Finally, Riz can you tell me that if you have to share the room there with other medics-dosent that sometimes cause havoc esp if students dont get on? How would I know that ive not been place with a complete looney? I mean are any masures/precautions taken to minimise this?

Jazak-allah

Luckily, Pakistanis are pretty much the most hospitable people in the world. They'll gladly share a room with you and jump at the chance to make a new friend as long as you don't throw foreign fanciness in their faces. Get to know them, talk to them, joke with them, and you're sure to have a good time. No one's going to try and harass you just because you're from the UK, or steal your money, or accuse you of acting better than everyone.

I know I've mentioned this a couple times now, but simple mannerisms and behavior really do make all the difference. You'll get along royally with everyone as long as you're as humble as they are. Act like a snob, and you'll be left on your own to figure out the city, the college, and anything else you need help with.

I know everyone who's currently living in school housing, and they're definitely not crazy, you can take my word for it. Most of them are extremely friendly, love to joke around, and will go out of their way to help you as much as possible.

I'm sure this is how things are regardless of where you do your elective- it really just comes down to attitude as far as these things go. I'm guessing you'd have to share a room at KE too- I haven't heard of private rooms in school housing out here.

Btw, if you do go to Islamabad, you can always take a 4hr bus ride to Lahore and spend the day there shopping and then also take the same bus back later that night. It's a safe, really simple, hassle-free system that most people take advantage of. You get the clean Islamabad life and all the lahore shopping that way.

 

[MastahRiz]

It seems you really didn't understand my posts at all if that's what you think I'm saying. Care to show me where I have ever said that Shifa is better than KE?

Maybe you missed the very first line that I wrote in this thread:

"I don't know anything about KE or its electives policy."

All I said is that Shifa has more modern facilities, and that Pakguy would have an easier time adjusting to Shifa/Islamabad than KE/Lahore.

Secondly, Shifa's private wards aren't the only part of the hospital. They have a large enough free-clinic where students do examinations, dressings, minor procedures, and follow up on the admitted patients daily- the exact duties of a house officer, without the paper work.

Yes, KE does sees more patients daily and also more diseases, but unless you're a total genius (and it's obvious that none of us here are), 4 measly weeks in Pakistan isn't going to teach you a world of difference just because you go to KE instead of a private hospital. For foreigners, a pakistani hospital is a pakistani hospital.

If you disagree, you disagree, but please read the posts properly in the future before making such blind accusations.

 

[MastahRiz]

sounds about right. I agree

 

[MastahRiz]

A lot goes on in anesthesia and the consultant, Dr. Shaukat let's students do everything he does himeslf.

Dr. Amer Nabi Nur is an awesome orthopedic surgeon who'll teach you a lot if you have a solid grasp on anatomy (meaning you know it extremely well).

Almost all consultants are like that at Shifa. If you know the basics of their field, anatomy/physio of the respective system, they'll be more than happy to teach you all the clinical knowledge they have.

However, if you go into the cardiology department, but you don't know the exact blood supply of the heart or how to read an EKG, or fluid mechanics etc, then they'll just kind of let you follow them around, won't really say much, and will let you know when you can go home for the day. Some will ask you to get them lunch. Or snacks. Possibly coffee.

No one that I'd avoid.

The patient to dr ratio is pretty high at Shifa, so regardless of what department you pick, they'll probably always have their hands full and if you show initiative, they'll start relying on you to do a lot more than just rotate and observe like a student.